Season review 2008 and beyond
Posted in IHRO News | 16 Comments »The end of another season is now on us, a six month winter lull faces us and I need yet again to have your ideas regarding how IHRO should progress for the coming years.
The season has been a success on the whole with some very good racing and some exemplary displays of riding.
High spots of 2008 for me were:
1. The whole meeting at Chimay, the atmosphere was just fabulous as befits what is probably one of the best road circuits in the world.
2. Watching Luke Notton at Gedinne going through the chicane, pure poetry.
3. Watching Jarno Jonker all year on the BMW, so sooth.
4. Watching Ives Glauser everywhere, such commitment.
5. The season long midfield battles between Rob den Tieter and Jos Sassen with David Lock and Bernd Pollmann as occasional guest entries.
6. The friendly atmosphere in the paddock and at the socials, particularly at Schleiz, Chimay and Djursland.
7. The number of people who took the time to thank both Euwain and myself for our efforts.
However there are a few areas which are causing concern.
The major concern is that at some meetings we have not had the level of entries that we have previously enjoyed, Brands Hatch in particular was embarrassing in its level of entries. There have been many reasons put forward to me over the season why entries are declining:
1.The cost of entries and travelling to meetings is on the increase and of course this does play a major role.
2.The current popularity of other formats of racing like the Lansdowne Cup are taking some of the entries for a few reasons, the machines are not as highly developed (honestly !!) as those allowed in IHRO, the riders are not (by and large) young hard chargers and some people feel more confident there as they are able to get better results.
3.The machine eligibility of IHRO causes some concern, this has always been, and will continue to be, a difficult area but I do try my best. A few years ago, there was much complaint about the ‘supermono’ singles which it was felt were destroying the class, now it has shifted and the ‘supermono’ manufacturers, owners and riders are now complaining about the Patons. One manufacturer has told me he has no intention of pitting his machines against 8 valve twins as he is unable to win as he does not have the currently best rider/machine combination. This is overstating the case I feel as realistically there is only one Paton and rider combination who have raced with IHRO this year which has proven unbeatable, other Paton / rider combinations have not been anywhere near as successful.
One thing that will not change is the type of machine which IHRO caters for. The underlying reason for eligibility to race with IHRO is: did a machine of that type race in a Grand Prix in the period, if the answer is yes, then the machine is eligible, I may restrict the eligibility to the particular individual machine, or I may accept all machines of that type as replicas, that choice is mine to make. There will be no changes to allow later two stroke machines or any more converted road machines to race, this is not open to discussion, IHRO has it’s place in the racing world and will stay true to those aims or cease to run at all. There are plenty of other classes for these other bikes. I opened up the classes a bit for the 250 cc class which has been slow starting but hopefully will have more support next year.
4. Circuit choice, are the circuits we use a problem?, I know that some people do not like any one particular circuit, we all have our preferences, but in general are they what you want to ride at?.
5. Championship, or lack thereof. Do you want a championship? if the answer is yes then the registration fee will have to increase to provide quality trophies at the end of the year, unless we got a sponsor to provide them of course. IHRO has always run the races as individual events to avoid putting pressure on riders to have to attend all meetings, but if YOU want a championship and are prepared to pay for it then let me know, we would be talking of an increase of at least 50% on the registration fees to cover the costs.
6. Push Starts. The old chestnut resurfaces!. As far as I know, IHRO is the last organisation still using this procedure, how many people does this ACTUALLY discourage, I am not talking about the pros and cons of push versus clutch starts, but what effect, if any is it having on entries.
Solutions which have been put forward in discussions include the following:
1. Incorporate a ‘Lansdowne’ type classification within the overall races.
2. Further restrict Patons, by for example reducing carburettor size to 32mm or by insisting they run only 2 valve heads.
3. Get races at GP or WSB, please bear in mind that to get to a GP or WSB we would need to pay the organisers a probable minimum of 20,000 Euros for a time slot, even IF they would agree.
4. Only have ‘nearby’ meetings. Nearby to whom?? The two furthest meetings for most people, Schleiz and Djursland were both very successful and enjoyable. The nearest to most people, i.e. within the UK and only just up from the ferry for continental riders, Brands Hatch, was the worst supported event EVER!!
So it is over to you for POSITIVE ideas, if all I get is negative responses then I will not post them.
Although IHRO is a ‘Benevolent Dictatorship’ I really need your honest feedback so I can decide how to go forward, if you don’t reply, then don’t complain afterwards.
Dear Graham,
I was surprised at how thin the numbers were for Brands, given that it is one of the UK’s most famous circuits.
I entered the IHRO race, but paid considerably more than £40 because of the wording on the entry form, which implied that it would cost over £100 – the difference was subsequently refunded, but I suspect this may have put some people off.
The weather clearly decimated the field on Sunday – I was one of the riders who opted not to ride in the pouring rain – having had a good day on Saturday I preferred to end the season on a high – this is supposed to be fun, after all.
I do not know how many riders object to the combined classes – I personally find it a challenge to see how many 500s can be beaten by a 350, but for others being lapped by Lea Gourlay ( which happened to me last year) may not be a life enrichening experience.
I enjoyed the meeting, and the season, and hope we have good racing at as varied a set of circuits next year, when I hope to finally ride the new Schleiz.
Just to re-iterate my comments on Djursland – It IS a long way, but the circuit, facilities and organisation I thought were excellent, and I would aim to race there again if we have a date in 2009. Please order the same weather!
Thanks for all your efforts in keeping the IHRO flag flying.
Lack of Entries! where does one start?. Well Graham’s comment was directed at UK meetings, the entry fee for CRMC for Donington and Brands for two races each day was around £300, if the sun shines the CRMC who usually have an entry list of 500 plus, run out of time,and those massively long 5 lap, or in Brands case 5 mile races, are reduced in length or even taken off the programme altogether.
The UK have some excellent circuits and clubs / organisations running races most weekends, as with our old Scarborough race which now the Lansdowne have take over, so why don’t we try and race at Thruxton, Castle Coombe, Oulton Park,with say North Glos. MCC or at a joint car meeting at Snetterton / Donington and so on.
On to the Belgium scene, the 350/500 G2 classes have full grids, the 500 usually being oversubscribed, my suggestion, lets have a real replica of a 1970s grid, when there, was MV Paton Yamaha Suzuki Matchless
Kawasaki Norton Seeley Honda Konig and so on. To try and please all, lets have a singles winner and a multi winner.
Finally low entries we are all in a recession and business is crap, hopeful 2009 will have seen the back of it.
Martin
Hi Graham,
Sorry but I was with the Lansdowne at Cadwell last weekend. That clash obviously didn’t help but to be fair I only race occasionally with CRMC because the difference between the really fast sponsored young scratchers on their lightweight 500s and me on a standard Manx is too great. I also love the atmosphere abroad with IHRO and would rather spend the money I do have being with the continental lads. A lot of us just do it for fun and it’s more fun abroad! The thing with Lansdowne is you have to do a lot of rounds to get a good grid position therefore it’s essential to do all meetings even at the end of the year ‘cos where you finish in the championship is where you start from next season.(Sorry I’ve wandered and that doesn’t help you much).
A lot of us also like the longer circuits abroad ‘cos as we get older we don’t get lapped by the really quick blokes. No one enjoys being lapped or made to look slow.
Hope that helps a bit.
Off to Italy next week to Fraciacorta, near Bergamo, to race the Paton in their final Classic meeting of the year. The Paton peolple got us an invite. Lea Gourley, Ollie Linsdell and I are going, guess where I’ll finish, but I do like Pinot Grigio!
Could you get a race there, although it’s a long drive for some? It is end of season and some people might think it a lovely way to end the season rather than a wet or freezing Brands Hatch?
Cheers and thanks for doing your bit, I enjoyed it even though I struggled to bump start the ‘Green Beast’ a couple of times!
As someone who rides an 86 bore over-the-counter Norton of the kind that Norton sold to the public (albeit no more “standard” than any race bike ever is), it really doesn’t matter to me if the guys up front are running Patons. I can’t compete with supermonos either. I’m all for having MV’s, Gileras, Patons, AND supermonos in IHRO racing, it makes the paddock an interesting place to be. And since they don’t seem to start very well, I get to hear them on full rattle as they go past towards the middle of lap one, and hopefully not again.
I’m happy with things the way they are, and like others, I’d rather spend my budget on meetings which seem to me (and my wife) more enjoyable, on more interesting circuits (this year’s Chimay was wonderful), that are well organised (thanks Graham and Euwain), and that curiously, even in Belgium, that fount of the “repressive Brussels’ legislation” that bedevils Britain, are less bureaucratic. Problems can be sorted out. Funny, that. Maybe it’s the absence of the blazerati?
And the weather is generally better. And the food is generally better. And the wine is cheaper. And the diesel to get there is cheaper. And the atmosphere is more relaxed. And the natives show every sign of actually being PLEASED that you are racing (and spending your money)in their town. Personally, I’d rather be “un pilote” at Chimay than “a biker” at Brands.
I am however FIRMLY in favour of push starts, and will remain so until I lose my advantage of being actually quite good at them. Then of course I’ll be demanding changes: all riders and bikes faster than me and mine to have their ankles duct-taped together on the grid should do it. (Besides, the almost unbearable tension of wondering if the bugger will start is a small price to pay for the huge relief when it does.)
Dear Graham,
Here is just a short comment in reply to your message.
I do not like or usually enter CRMC race meetings as they do not compare with the Continental races in regards to the general feeling of relaxed freedom associated with decent length races over proper road race circuits.
CRMC meetings are well known for the enforcement of Health and safety rules, noise rules, almost invariably disordered running of the programme, short races that very often are shortened still further due to the organisation trying to accommodate virtually every combination of machine size and age.
Please post this on to your web site
Hi Graham and Euwain,
I have had great fun riding with all the guys in IHRO, I would like to thank them all for being patient when lapping me, I will try and be a bit quicker next year as the Bultaco is slowly getting sorted(sorry not much I can do about the rider).
I agree with most of the comments regarding weather and atmosphere in the paddocks. Also we have all done the English circuits quite a few times and there is always that”Going on holiday” feeling when you get on the ferry, this I think helps when the wife is doing the entry forms,we can all remember cold and wet English circuits.
I hope the numbers for the 250 class will rise next year, I think there must be a few who are thinking “If that plonker can win a pot so can I” so maybe we will see some more,if only for the “easy pot” reason.
I at long last have got the Bultaco to bump start now, although I think bump starts may well put off quite a few potential riders. Maybe clarification of the entry fees on the IHRO website might reduce any confusion that may be putting people off,(Not that I can get an entry in on time anyway)
If it becomes a full Championship some will say “oh I can’t do some of the rounds so it is not worth joining”, as against a series and you only do what suits you (my preference is a series).
Congratulations to Martin Hudson on his recent successes. Thanks again for a great Series.I Look forward to next year.
Mick Nash-de-Villiers.
Hi Graham
Thanks for a great season, sorry I couldn’t joint more than 2 of the IHRO events this year but family, no sponsors and work didn’t allow more and it will probably be the same in the future, but please keep on arrange these races.
For me safety are a great factor so some of the races at more “dangerous” road tracks are not a option for me, as there are more other races on great “safer” tracks than I can joint during the season.
Thanks again
Hi Graham,
Sorry to hear about the Brands lack of turnout, and the disappointing Donington showing.
I did Donington, but as I believe you were aware, due to being away from 14th September until 14th October I was unable to do either Brands (where I would not have ridden in the conditions), or sadly Denmark. I don’t often ride with CRMC due to their very short races and sometimes somewhat regimented attitude, but will always do so when IHRO and/or Lansdowne have races.
My only beef (and it is a serious beef) with IHRO is the wretched push starts and I really do wish that you would drop this outmoded practice – as indeed every other race organiser has done.
That having been said (again!), thank you very much for organising yet another season of fun for us old gits. It is much appreciated.
Jan Koning says:
I dont mind the multies like Paton, MV etc becuase they are even unaffordable for me than a top tuned Walmsley Norton or G50.
From the spectators point of view it makes classic racing even more interesting to watch and we need spectators in the first place!
What IHRO could do is limit the carburator size for far to fast machines?
I like to bring up the subject of push start(yes again), because it is unfair and dangerous.
If IHRO should drop push start it may bring more riders on to the grid.
For me personal I have physical problems.
I tried again this seison and it was very difficult.
At Mettet the first race I took help and I left way behind and during the race I was on my own and did not see another rider.
Racing suppose to be fun and this was no fun at all and if IHRO keeps push start I will quit.
I think IHRO still needs the old guys to fill the grid!
Having said that, thank you for the excellent organisation,
Regards Jan Koning
I want to react on the push starts. I have problems with push starts myself because:
1. Physically i have problems with my legs,and its hard to do the push start.
2. I had an accident during the start i hit someone at his back, because the motorbike in front of me didnt start.
3. The older drivers will stop because they have even more physical problems like racing accidents. but they could drive with a normal start.
I think that at long therm a normal start is better for the ihro startfield.
I happy with the rest of the season and the organisation.
Regards Alex Siertsema
Please do not let us get bogged down only in the issue of push starts. I brought that up as one item of many.
Sorry Alex, but ‘normal’ WAS push start in the period which is what we are trying to keep alive.
I do however see the point you are making.
I think everybody wants to run in events they can perform best.
For me it is the same.
So the best thing to do is to let run only standard bikes, cutoff date 1963, and keep in the push starts because my best scores in IHRO are due to a good start and a defending race.
But I don’t think that is the best for IHRO.
For me it is important that I can do al lot of racing in a weekend, so I only go to meetings where I can run in more than 1 race. I don’t want to travel 400 miles for only 3X 20 minutes track time.
I also don’t like races with different classes in one race; I also think the public doesn’t understand that someone running on the 6 place is listed as 1e.
Stay with the push starts, it is the way how it always was, and the silence before the race is start is something very special for the spectators. It is also something that makes the IHRO races different and special.
I personally believe that IHRO should be trying to re-create as much as possible,the period that we are interested in, i.e. 60-70′s approximately; when my heroes/”gods” were competing, and what I am trying to do as a mark of admiration and respect to them, and how they competed in the Continental Circus.
Push starts must and should be retained as they were part of the period, and that is how it was done. As everybody knows, there is nothing like the silence and tension on the grid before the flag drops.
I have no problem with multi-cylinder machines, providing they are correct to the period (eg 4 valve heads instead of 2 valve heads, etc).
If the majority want a Championship, I have no problem with the idea, but I cannot do all the meetings due to work commitments and competing at the Manx Grand Prix.
As regards CRMC, I am a member, but because I insist in running unsilenced where possible (and they dropped push starts a while ago), I do not very often ride with them. (I believe Donnington 08 was “noisy”, but I could not get time off work.) As I believe the short circuit was used at Brands Hatch, no doubt cost prohibited the use of the full G.P. circuit. That possibly had some bearing on the lack of entries.
Regarding circuits, in 09 after Schleiz on 12-14 June, could 2 IHRO Races be arranged at the Czech TT at Horice, which is to be held the following weekend, 20-21 June.
Due to the undoubted success of the long course of Chimay 08, which was AWESOME, hopefully the long course will be used again soon.
What about this to wet your appetite – the full Figure of 8 Course at Mettet – that would sort the men from the boys! Also the real ROAD course at Sachsenring; and Imatra, which I believe was run as a Parade meeting in 08.
Personally, I prefer real ROAD courses, eg the long course at Chimay, TT Course, and Mettet. Some circuits are O.K. provided they are the flowing type and you can get going, eg Schleiz. What I do not like are chicane riddled short circuits.
Are there any meetings in Spain, Italy……. where IHRO could run a race?
Many thanks Graham and Euwain. Keep up the good work.
Mick Moreton
Hi Graham, first let me thank you for the two rides on my metisse, with the original disc brake fitted ,the drum brake is well under way for next year.As a new member my thoughts may not be as important as some of your longer serving guys however , i thought Brands was perhaps one race to many for the season.late in year and bad weather a probability ? As for the IHRO format please dont change it 1960s bikes push starts, re-create the atmosphere etc. you all do that so well.
although I do sympathise with others re-push starts as I now collect the old age pension and i am the original 9stone weakling!!! however a 12mile cycle ride once a week does help keep the legs in some sort of order.Im not to worried about super quick bikes riden by desperate young men, well thats the nature of raceing and always has been,although I feel one or two bikes have brocken the spirit of the rules.The bonus for us is they do give spectacular racing for the spectators whilst the rest of us can enjoy a dice hopefully somewhere just behind.
As to more bikes on the grid I fear the upsurge of forgoten era (if thats still the correct term for Yamaha racing)has taken some riders away, also the financial situation dosnt help.the positive thing this year must surely be the liason with Lansdown at Chimay could this be extended next year? might some IHRO members elect to clutch start with them? perhaps not.well I hope thats of some use and i look foreward to my 3 or 4 “holliday” rides next year
Many thanks Andy Alexander PS.a big hello from Jenny
Hi Graham,
I am very sorry not to have been able to participate in any IHRO events this season due to a couple of broken vertebrae as a result of a crash in an early season racing event in Hungary.
But as I plan to come back as soon as possible I would like to comment on some of the issues you have brought up.
Push starts: personally I hate push starts as I usually give up my grid position to avoid start line accidents and therefore lose some 20 positions at the start. Every rider will vote for the procedure that suits him best so that won´t help your decision much. But I think you have to consider two important points that strongly recommand clutch starts: a good push starter will lose a small advantage if you switch to clutch starts but that won´t discourage him from participating at all because he has no choice but the bad push starter on the other hand will get frustrated if he loses out every time even before the first lap is under way if push starts are sustained. This rider will eventually go elsewhere to have more fun!
And the other point is safety: As the only organizer who still uses push starts you will get under enormous pressure if someone gets hurt in a startline accident – I sure hope it will never come to that!
Then there is the issue of re-creating the golden days of racing in the sixties: Don´t you agree that this is an illusion? I don´t think you could ever mistake an IHRO race for an actual race of this “golden era”. We are using replica machines made from different materials, the tyres are of different compound, tread and sizes and not even the riders look like their counterparts of 40 years earlier with their fullface helmets and protector-improved leathers. Surely you don´t wish back the pudding-basins? And last but not least the average IHRO rider is usually past his physical best.
Circuit choice: again, I have personal preferences and therefore would never again participate in events where the track is lined with hard and unforgiving objects in unsafe distance. But I accept that the majority of riders has no problem to race on real-road tracks; that just isn´t for me anymore. So I lament the loss of some events that have been dropped from the IHRO calendar like Magny-Cours or Le Mans. Maybe there is a chance in the future to regain access to these or other permanent and safer circuits, perhaps in cooperation with other classic racing events such as the one in Schleiz that has proven so successful?
Championship: I think this is a good idea as this will provide the chance of ending higher up the ranks of the championship just by consistency. It will encourage people who have the time and money to contend as many of the events as possible so this will boost the grids.
Many thanks for the good work!
Dear Graham,
First the best wishes for 2009.
About push starts: If people have problems with push starts let them start from the pit lane or a second start 10 seconds after the push start. I preffer a push start and my bike is prepared for it.
What is fun in racing? My opion on this is simple, if i can compete with someone i am happy even if its for the last place in the race. rather race someone for that place then lead with a 5 second gap on number two.
Getting full grid. I propose to let the “slow” 500′s start with the 350′s. This gives more battles in the 350 class. Myself did only join in Gedinne because of a lot of reasons. I was disappointed by the number of entries in the 350 class and suprised by the number of entries in the Belgium classes.
Hope to be able to enter some more events this year as i will not defend my 350 championship in the dutch competion because of lack of money.
Regards and keep on the good work.