Push Starts
Posted in Competitions, IHRO News | 38 Comments »It is now over three years since this issue was discussed and it has become very clear that there are many people who would now like to see a change from Push starts to Clutch starts. Equally, there are a number of riders very committed to Push starts.
There are a large number of people who claim to be not riding with IHRO because they do not like Push starts. If things were to change, it would be interesting to see how many of them ‘put their money where their mouth is’ and either start or restart riding with us.
The issuses of safety and the pros and cons of both methods are well enough known and have been discussed to death. Most people know where they stand on the issue.
I feel that it is now only fair to allow you, the riders, to have a vote again on the issue. As Andy Molnar has said in his comment about the proposed class changes, the only unique selling point of IHRO as opposed to all the other classes in all the other countries is that we use Push starts, the last organisation in the world to do so as far as I am aware. I feel he is only partially correct in his assertion, we do have other things that no other organisation has, events in multiple countries being the obvious one, atmosphere and friendliness being others.
Mick Nash De Villiers in his post makes a valid comment "Unfortunately if you take a vote amongst the die-hard stalwarts of a declining series the format will probably not alter and the inevitable end will leave the purists with nowhere to ride at all."
So what do YOU think?
I need your input again, if you do not comment, you cannot complain at the result, I will count ONLY the people who post for or against on here, I will not count phone calls, discussions in the paddock, please be willing to stand up and be counted.
Roger Bryant, the CRMC chairman said that when the CRMC went to Clutch starts, riders numbers grew sharply, as you know we are at a stage where our numbers are declining and we need to do something now to arrest that trend, Roger also proposed that we try Clutch starts until the end of the season, and see what difference, if any, are achieved. This discussion must be taken as a separate issue to the proposed class changes.
I have added sections of posts already made by riders in the discussion about the future of IHRO where relevant
What do YOU think?
On the issue of IHRO members bringing up again the push start against clutch starts saga. Speaking to many members in the paddock it does seem that riders are put off push starts, especially the older people, i.e., at Mettet and Chimay where it is an uphill push. I feel it is time that we had clutch starts and I think it would be a good idea to put it to the vote again although I know a lot of people are against clutch starts, even the Landsdowne series are clutch starts and they are supposed to be period bikes.
Push start is an other discussion,most riders are over 40 and older and the bike must be in good conditions to have a good start.For some riders this is a handicap.
I think it always advisable to think of the features that will attract the future of the series as well as try and get back the guys that have been lost over the last few years. I am sure that you would not loose anyone if you go to clutch starts, as anywhere they try to go would be clutch starts anyway.
I have been racing for fifteen years and have never made a good start, clutch or push so It would not help me. but if pushing does become any harder for me, I will reluctantly have to go back to being an admiring spectator for the IHRO races.
By and large, I agree with Mike. I’m 66, and have always voted for bump-starts because (now it can be told) I’ve always been good at them. (Purist? Moi? Don’t be silly.) And so long as my luck holds, it means I get a chance to see and hear the Patons as they come past later…
I’ll probably miss the tension of wondering if the bugger will start THIS time, but I can live with it. I pass over in the silence the bizarre concept that having the entire field arrive at the first corner at the same time is deemed “safer” than spread out. God preserve us from elfansafety: racing pales in comparison with the dangers their efforts to keep themselves in a job pose.
I have already told you I am not doing any more push starts.
I always loved push starts,and far away in my heart i still want to push the beast in motion but i have become in a age where is very difficult.
So if it is becoming now to a new vote against or for a Push start,i have to vote for a Clutch start.
I think Roger Bryant idea to try Clutch till the end of the season is a good idea.
My comment: if you cannot push, tune back your engine!! And stop that endless whining about the pushstart, it makes me very angry.
Greetings from an old IHRO-rider for more than 20 years.
Dear Graham,
As you are aware I have been a staunch supporter of push starts, but now I do feel it is time for a change. You have only to look at the average age of ihro members to see why. At Mettet in particular it is an uphill push with full Isle of Man gearing, and even for a 30 year old it would be asking a lot – look at what happened in first IHRO race there this year. It was also noticeable that the grids for the Belgian races were nearly all full, with many of the machines being IHRO eligible. Perhaps we are failing to attract younger riders due to the push starts. It is most certainly the case that we have lost a number because of them. Roger Bryant (CRMC chairman ) suggested to you at the meeting that ihro should as an experiment change to clutch starts for the remainder of the season, and assess the results. If there is no improvement in entries or it proves unpopular it is dead simple to revert to pushing. I strongly support this suggestion.
I will miss that sense of silent tension on the grid before the flag drops if we go to clutch starts, but I think a trial period for the rest of this season would make sense. If we go to a single cylinder class and a multis class next year the latter will have to have clutch starts, but if our trial of clutch starts does not improve grids, perhaps we could consider retaining push starts for the singles.
Push starts, keep them, it adds to the excitement of the race if you can’t start your bike have a pusher just like you do now
If in the longer term after a clutch start trial the original expands again and the modern is poorly supported you can go back to 2 races original
As someone new to the series I struggle with the push starts.
I would much prefer clutch starts in the future.
As I am now 70 years young, do I get 7 votes? Please, please , please let’s fall into line with ALL other classic race events/series/countries (even the arch traditionalists in New Zealand), CLUTCH STARTS are what I crave for!
dear graham
because of my age the push start is more and more difficult
every yaer, that,s why i vote for the clutch start.
i also think the clutch start is the most safety one.
regards ben mensink
I prefer push starts and agree with Hans Buskermolen, “tune back your engine” ,which I think means std spec engines are easy to start.
BUT to preserve the future of IHRO and bring members back, I VOTE FOR CLUTCH STARTS, MAKE THAT 2 VOTES. Tony and Sophie Smith.
Clutch starts have got to be much safer.
As I am soon 60 years old , do I get 6 votes ?
I vote for CLUTCH STARTS !!!
I think clutch starts are safer and I hope would bring more entries to the grid. I would support a trial.
Also I like making Hans Buskermolen mad!!!!(madder!!!)
Please,no more push starts.I vote for CLUTCH STARTS.
I am not doing any more push starts.I pay the Entry for racing, not for pushing.
i vote for clutch starts because of the raising age of our members. It seems that we do not attrack younger members anymore.
clutch starts are of course safer.
As a 60 year old I should prefer clutch starts
but one of the only advantages in racing of being big is the push starts.Also the period push starts are unique to IHRO and the race organisers and spectators like to experience the silence and tension before the race start.
I vote for push starts
I vote for the push start. Once you loose something you can’t get it back. If we start with a trail period for clutch starts now we have already lost the battle.
I vote for clutch start, only when it benefits lager starting grids in the future. Because racing at all is in the end more important than discussing the way of starting the race.
Personally I Prefer the push starts! It is unique!! So if starting grids don’t expand in the near future, Let’s push again!!
My vote goes to the clutch start. The pushstart is dangerous and it’s getting harder for me every year.
One of the reasons for me joining IHRO was push starts and that’s one of the reasons I stay.
As far as I can remember, the only reason clutch starts were introduced in the mid 70′s was because of difficulties starting the 750 cc Superbikes i.e. Easter Match Races etc. Everything else was push start.
I cannot understand why people join IHRO, and then want to change it. It’s like wanting to ride at the Manx Grand Prix and then not wanting to ride the TT Course.
For a successful push start there is obivously sill, knack and luck. It does need to be practised again and again.
As an attraction for organisers and spectators, the silence at the sart of an IHRO race is unique and should not be lost.
In my view abandoning push starts would be the death of IHRO.
As a comment about multi’s needing to clutch start, from what I’ve read the V8 Guzzi, Gilera and obviously MV were all push started. (John Surtees stated that the 4 cylinder was easier to start than a single.)
I’m sorry if this affects rider numbers, Graham, but if they don’t want a push start, then don’t join IHRO.
THEREFORE, I VOTE FOR PUSH STARTS.
Hi. Graham, I have always suported push starts as I think its the only way to start a race from the classic era for all the reasons quoted by other “PUSHERS” above . so put me down as a “pusher”. however if the vote goes the other way as I suspect, you can expect to see me on the grid a little sad but slighly relieved as Jan Brouwer said “not to have to set the beast in motion” with a push in my 66th year regards Andy
It is also Andy’s 40th Year since he first started a race with a push. Regards Jenny
Push starts or clutch?
My thoughts are that if we really wish to create the continental circus as it was in the day then clutch starts are the only option. The trouble is that the various damaged bits and pieces of my body (the result of almost 40 years of racing with the enevitable “overbalancing” here and there) are telling me that I personally can no longer achieve this. So, from a totally selfish point of view, I am very reluctantly voting for clutch starts. I know I can use a pusher from the back but if everybody is getting like me then we will have a full grid of pushers! (not the safest option, amost as bad as a full grid arriving at the first corner together)! Also please don’t tell me to detune my engine. A high performance engine has, due to the longer valve opening times, very low compression at slow revolutions. A road cam will provide far more compression at pushing speeds than a race cam.
The main main problem for me is getting the engine to turn fast enough to generate a spark and, with my arthritic ankle, this is getting more difficult with each new season. The curse of getting old! (Yes, I am older than Franz Glauser but I still retain the right to be slower!)
Nevertheless, even if the vote goes for push starts I will still do my best to get the B thing going!
Regards to all
I would vote for clutch starts,as a small old man I do find it difficult, particularly with the high gearing we use in Belgium. I also race in the Belgium Group 1 with a clutch start as do others from ihro and still have some energy left after the start.
Hi, Graham,
For what it’s worth, I think the time has come to go for clutch starts. Firstly on the grounds of safety, ever more an issue, secondly because of the fact that none of us is getting any younger, so why give the whippersnappers an added advantage beyond the fact they’re braver and faster than the old guard, and thirdly because it’ll make for closer racing from the off (although that arguably is a rebuttal for Reason One!)
Good luck in arriving at a consensus.
All the best,
Alan
Dear Graham,
Pusch starts – that is a good and great show. But it is to dangerous. I wote for CLUTCH STARTS.
GRAHAM
EVEN IF IT MAKES HANS ANGRY I WOULD PREFER A
CLUTCH START
NO SCHOLL
I’m not amused about the push starts its to dangeres at the moment.
When the push starts continue ,there are many riders even me who stop racing.
so the advice no push starts.
I would prefer to abolish push starts and to establish regular starts with clutch instead. I personally made the unpleasant experience being bumped from behind during a push start. Therefore my vote for starts with clutch.
Thank you very much for your commitment.
I prefer cluth starts for the safety. I almost hit someone who has been helping a rider that could not get his bike push started at Mettet.I think the grid is only for the riders and not for mechanics and hereby put themselfs and the riders in a dangerous position.
Regards
Paul
I’ve read all the views expressed on this subject with great interest.
First I would like to comment on the safety aspect that does keep being mentioned. I apologies Graham as you have mentioned that people have there own views on this but everyone who has commented so far is of the opinion that clutch starts are safer. From personal experience I can say for sure that they are no safer. Weather it is by push or clutch the start of the race will always be the most dangerous part. For those who don’t believe I will happily send you a picture of what was left of my back wheel after a “safe” clutch start.
So to my preference. Being one of the few riders who is nearer 30 then 60 physically the push start is not so much of a problem for me! From as far back as I can remember watching GP racing, the start was always one of my favourite parts, the calm before the storm. When I started racing it had the same feeling for me. Last year at Chimay was the first time I had done a push start for a few years and I was amazed how electrifying I found the experience. It makes IHRO unique and I feel it would be a real shame to lose that. I understand that for many it is now a problem but I vote for push. However if the majority want clutch then so be it.
Dear Graham,
I’m not competing in the IHRO anymore because of the push starts. It’s to dangerous and if it doesn’t work out, the whole weekend is ruined. When you will use the clutch start I’d love to come back to Ihro racing.
Also I vote for a clutch start!!
Jan Frank Bakker
Preserve us from the myth and mindset of so-called clutch start safety. Imagine the first bend, first lap at Mettet after a clutch start!
Again to repeat myself, riders join IHRO knowing it is push start. If they don’t like push starts, join the local non-push start races.
We are supposed to be re-creating the atmosphere of the GPs of the period. I am sure some of the riders who are with us, and some who sadly are not, would laugh their socks off at the attitude of the wingeing old women who seem to want to change IHRO for the worst. They should hang their heads in shame.
Push starting is IHRO.
Please take a look at Jack Findlay push starting at Spa Francochamps in the film, Continental Circus. It’ll make the hairs on the back ofyour neck stand up, or it should. If the non-push starters get their way, IHRO will become, to quote the late Frank Rutter, “a girl’s race”.
Many thanks
Dear Graham, dear riders!
as photographer or spectator i agree with Mick, the silence at the start of an IHRO race is unique and should not be lost. The discussion about reminds me of a german legend: to stab a dagger into the back of the as yet undefeated army.
And yes, it was the film Continental Circus with its atmosphere that took me to watch IHRO races. And i wasn´t diappointed. So i´ll be upset if this is going to be a piece of history.
Riding only occasionally a wild card perhaps i shouldn´t give a vote but rather my opinion.
But as a girl i´d like to let you know, that i don´t need a clutch start and that i´m not afraid to do a push start. Honestly i was afraid the first time, but now i do love it very much! Of course anybody could say that i open my trap: a 2-stroke is easy pushable, we both are lightweight and not too old. Reading the comment of Hans Buskermolen…”tune back your engine!!” made me laugh because this is exactly what i did: a lower compression ratio than original…
If more riders quit IHRO because of the push start it could die out. So i´ll vote for any solution to get lager starting grids and keep it alive.
About security.
Finally i think i´d would be more afraid of the first corner after a clutch start than with a push start. And i guess that slow pushed bikes (possibly on silly lines) could be seen much better than one bike, that didn´t fired up in the grid of a clutch start. P.e. in my motocycle club, sadly we had 2 accidents last year. One of us was put to death and another of us has ridden over another rider, both happened during a clutch start with 40 modern 4Cyl. bikes.
Of course we all want to have the highest security level we can get. But we shouldn´t forget, if we sign in for a race we don´t sign in with guaranties, especially if it´s a road race
Please be indulgent with my words as i´m not a native speaker.
Kind regards, Ela